Tribe.net. Local Connections john silveira http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#28d4fae7-2e6d-40ba-89f4-afa2230ab7d0 2007-01-26T05:50:16Z 2007-01-26T05:50:16Z

Hey Mia . i can relate . horses are fragile and ignorance comes with a high price when it comes to these animals . i'm on a rant cause i've been a farrier for sixteen years now and have witnessed the result of all the improper farrier practices from the most prominent farriers in california . it made me find out why these problems were happening with horses coming up lame and many times permanently lame from supposedly specialists and experts in the farrier industry - truth is they are still missing a big part of the horseshoeing puzzle - and it's not even taught in the shoeing schools and not in any of the textbooks i've ever seen . so just wanted to clue you in on another something you should look into - for your horses sake . they deserve it . and to be honest with you it's one area where lameness occurs most prevelantly . a huge risk when it comes to horses feet and joints - when they blow it's usually a big problem and too many times permanent . can't risk that just because you're not informed . i've been working on getting this information out to the general public and have made myself available for consultation at no charge for now to help people everywhere and advance this industry and protect horses. feel free john silveira http://www.Care4Horses.com good luck

john silveira 2007-01-26T05:50:16Z john silveira http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#aa85f929-0055-4cef-82fc-03c83a17e88d 2007-01-26T05:43:08Z 2007-01-26T05:43:08Z

Hello , sounds like you are one of the genuine people concerned about everything related to horses. GREAT . Your horse looks very well kept . i just want to make you privy to a breakthrough method of horseshoeing not taught in the farrier schools or textbooks . i graduated from what is considered the worlds greatest horseshoeing school and they didn't teach this nor have i ever seen this in any of the textbooks , if you were to go to Farrier blogs and forums and discussion groups you'll see they are in general still arguing about things and acting as if they're still looking for answers and the truth . they just still haven't discovered the real deep truth about shoeing . i don't know why i can just say that's the way it is - there's been alot of advancements that reflect that farriers understand there are problems and issues that need to be addressed regarding lameness but they're still just missing the whole picture . good news is there's actually is an answer , it's a fairly complex discussion that's not addressed anywhere i've seen in the industry but all i can tell you is the results speak for themselves - i have not had one single lame horse in 16 years that i have been implementing this method in the bay area - works on every kind of horse or pony in every kind of riding style from jumping to endurance to dressage to backyard pleasure horses to western - ok - ok ... anyway i'm just in the process of getting this information out to the general public for the benefit of the horses that deserve the best and the assurance of their livliehood and ongoing service without crippling lameness . so i've been making myself available for consultation at no charge . it's a terrible thing to have to trust shoers when they really don't have this information . your horse is the one that pays the price - john silveira http://www.Care4Horses.com

john silveira 2007-01-26T05:43:08Z john silveira http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#34d39f0d-1130-4be0-b587-dfab8af089b9 2007-01-26T05:34:17Z 2007-01-26T05:34:17Z

i like your post . it's always great to hear from people that are "Intelligent" and into their horses , from the common sense approach . Impressive . the industry needs more people like yourself . i'm a farrier for sixteen years in the bay area california , excuse me for jumping in but sounds like you really care for your horses , i don't want to flame anyone but after 16 years in the farrier industry i can tell you there's a big problem and horses everywhere are at risk from farrier practices . Truth is - well - i graduated from what's considered the worlds greatest shoeing school and when i got out of their master course at 5 thousand dollars i still felt like something was missing . There was i found out . The schools are still in the dark about shoeing correctly - something missing and the textbooks are missing it as well . So what you have is a bunch of farriers running around practicing incomplete horseshoeing skills - result - horses lame everywhere sometimes permanently lame . Good news is i somehow discovered the truth and what's missing . the part that the schools and farrier industries is missing , and in practice the result is for me - not one single lame horse in 16 years of serving clients everywhere on every kind of horse under every kind of riding style . Very important information every horse owner should be aware of , the risk of staying in the dark is just too costly to your horse . i'm making myself available for consultation to get this information out to the general public , Horses NEED it . and i'm doing so at no charge . free for now john silveira http://www.Care4Horses.com

john silveira 2007-01-26T05:34:17Z john silveira http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#05a85ad5-01f6-4640-a8f9-5f80c0e73e9b 2007-01-26T05:25:35Z 2007-01-26T05:25:35Z

You GO GIRL !! john silveira farrier 16 years in California Bay area http://www.Care4Horses.com

john silveira 2007-01-26T05:25:35Z john silveira http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#655e10cc-9a9a-457c-9374-542049fa714a 2007-01-26T05:24:36Z 2007-01-26T05:24:36Z

don't have much info on treeless saddles but i'm a farrier and have put many hours in the saddle bareback , the key to riding bareback so your ass doesn't get rubbed raw is to ride with your legs from the knee down "HORIZONTAL" so your legs basically are riding along the horses back parallel to the ground . support your weight on your legs and keep your ass "OFF" the back of the horse unless you are walking slowly . When cantering your butt never touches the back of the horse all your weight is carried all along your leg from the knee to ankle , the riding position is akin to how jockies ride ! got it !!! it's awesome and the horse will absolutely love you for doing so , it's classy and shows alot of heart and guts . i got to where i could ride like that just as well if not better than riding with a saddle . it's going to kill your legs until you get built up to it but if you want your legs to get into nice shape - nothing better . john silveira farrier in Bay Area California 16 years of practice http://www.Care4Horses.com

john silveira 2007-01-26T05:24:36Z BlissDancer http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#7d40ad74-a89d-40e7-bbb2-78043f8d68dd 2006-12-12T03:15:14Z 2006-12-12T03:15:14Z

I have a Torsion treeless endurance saddle, and I love it. It doesn't fit my percheron though...I have to take the wooden pommel out (it zips in) and stuff it with something or it pinches her withers (not that she really has any!) She's a couch basically. I also ride most of my horses in a rope hackamore (like a rope halter but with long reins, partially tie around neck or attach to you or saddle) it's like have a lead rope, bridle and halter in one! My horses respond really well to it...two of them having been trained with an abusive owner and mechanical hackamores. I found the bitless bridel (Dr. Cook style) to really bother my horses, not enough release exactly when you want to release...which is why I love the rope halters for training and riding. I like Double Diamond brand, they are stiff and have great release. I also use a Parelli bareback pad to ride in too. All the best, Leela

BlissDancer 2006-12-12T03:15:14Z Mia Donna http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#8db8d308-e097-4575-8005-64feb31f07f9 2006-12-06T05:18:47Z 2006-12-06T05:18:47Z

no apologize...get on your high horse!! i surely want to know!!! and yes, i want to get a great saddle..mine is 13 years old, so i know it's a great investment and i plan on keeping falcor, so i want one that will be perfect for us... and i love just riding bareback...but i do endurance riding and um...my bootie is not all enduring!! i can make it through winter.

Mia Donna 2006-12-06T05:18:47Z Amy http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#93c4bfd6-3bc6-455c-b71e-2b86ca3eba52 2006-12-06T00:01:25Z 2006-12-06T00:01:25Z

It has a western-style suspended seat (if that's the correct term. Still learning all this non-English stuff ;o) with long, flat panels. I think the stuffing was definately a spot where they shaved some corners--it feels like foam covered w/ fleece. I don't know how often such panels need attending to, but it's probably at the 1 year mark, when we'd usually check how an English saddle broke in and see if it needs adjusting.

Amy 2006-12-06T00:01:25Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#d4bb8e2f-b766-4cd6-97cc-b8709b74822b 2006-12-05T19:25:57Z 2006-12-05T19:25:57Z

I dont know anyone personally in town that works on aussie or english saddles. Theres a pretty good English shop on speedway(eastside) they may know a local person to re flock your saddle.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-05T19:25:57Z Amy http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#954996be-4cdd-48be-9f43-c4bc5704718f 2006-12-05T17:46:52Z 2006-12-05T17:46:52Z

No, I understand. I know horse owners who do have the money to go out a buy a good quality, correctly fitted saddle for their horse, but just go out and buy poorly made and poorly fitted gear just because the price is lower. I too think it's wiser to spend the a bit more for quality up front, if you're intending to keep the saddle around for years, provided you have it. If you don't, then just know you're going to be replacing it sooner and that you're going to have to spend some time hunting around for good quality at a lower price. I find it absolutely inexcusable to buy a cheap saddle just because of the price when the thing doesn't fit your horse. When I couldn't find a saddle in my price range that fit Dolly, I rode bareback. And I'm very sad that Tucson has so few tack shops. I naively assumed when I moved here that I'd be able to find a good saddle shop. Instead, everything has the same generic western saddle....**sigh** I think the panels on my Aussie need restuffing. Any suggestions for who in town could do that?

Amy 2006-12-05T17:46:52Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#d82445b5-7095-4b29-b65e-5ee01ec39086 2006-12-05T16:07:25Z 2006-12-05T16:07:25Z

for brushes, buckets, etc. I like to order from country supply, they give better deals when you buy in bulk of some things. I really like their saddle pads & girths from "the new breed" brand, my horse likes them & they hold up well through water, mud, brush, and are easy to clean. I havn't seen them anywhere else.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-05T16:07:25Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#ad936117-cdef-44f9-a700-def49282d707 2006-12-05T15:35:36Z 2006-12-05T15:35:36Z

Sorry, I tend to get on my high horse about saddles and such, I feel sad that there are so few good local shops left, Growing up in Tucson, there were 4 great shops, now only one. Just about every town had a good shop. Now you just find a feed store and see the off the shelf Saddles, machine stitched, clicker stamped, fake fleece, plastic tree. They probably work just as well.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-05T15:35:36Z Mia Donna http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#e5783e2f-3066-4c00-af0b-4c81cecd230b 2006-12-05T05:48:37Z 2006-12-05T05:48:37Z

i'm still riding in the saddle i got when i was 12. i do love it though!! but time to move on! i was thinking about getting an endurance saddle...then this treeless thing was brought to my attention. falcor is still only 4, so i could give him another year to grow into his head..(his noggin is huge!).. but i've been riding bareback, with these crazy spurts he's going through..(3 inches in 2 months...is that crazy!!?) i want to be really gentle on his changing body. i wish i could try out your saddles!!! have to make a day trip to the toy store...oh yes..the horsie toy store!!

Mia Donna 2006-12-05T05:48:37Z Mia Donna http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#80687f6c-0128-4e07-b787-1db610ba8841 2006-12-05T05:40:32Z 2006-12-05T05:40:32Z

oh oh oh...i wasn't gonna get saddles and bridles and stuff wholesale...specially now!!! just brushes and buckets and supplies....guess my topic was implying that.

Mia Donna 2006-12-05T05:40:32Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#56e1d0ad-bc11-4de4-ab42-7b6378a77b45 2006-12-02T23:10:04Z 2006-12-02T23:10:04Z

I paid $950 for my Trekker plus shipping from Germany - you can get them less new or used in the USA. My friend bought a used one for $450 and she loves it - just and FYI :o)

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-02T23:10:04Z Amy http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#8e3936cf-dfd2-4228-9119-5f52c70aafd5 2006-12-02T22:02:59Z 2006-12-02T22:02:59Z

But I don't think that inexpensive always means cheap. I got my "cheap" Aussie for around $550, fitted, and I love it to death. One of the most comfortable saddles I've ridden in and it's wearing very well. I liken it to box store vs. designer boutiques. There's some very well made clothes at "cheap" stores and some very badly made clothes at high end places. Sometimes they're charging you for quality, and sometimes they're just charging because of the name. Get your hands on the goods, feel the leather, wipe it w/ a damp cloth and see what comes off, feel how thick the padding is, look over the stitching, etc. Plus, there's the reality of the pocket book. As much as I would love a high quality, custom-made saddle, and as much of a well-worth investment it would be, I simply don't have the money and have to look for the lower prices. I might end up replacing it in 10 years, rather than in 30, but that's what I'll have to do to afford it.

Amy 2006-12-02T22:02:59Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#455614f8-ac57-473c-b06a-2e832655f65f 2006-12-02T19:27:40Z 2006-12-02T19:27:40Z

I was not talking about the Treker, German and French saddles for the most part are regulated in the quality of leather they are allowed to use. I was talking about the wholesale outfits that have saddles for $500. and such. Look at the Cheap Aussie saddles they are made with urine tanned Buffalo leather. Get one wet and it will take weeks to get the stench out of the tack room.. Also If you buy a quality they do not loose value if you have to trade it in. My old Stubben sold for more than I bought it for when My ass got to big to fit in it anymore. If you look on Ebay any of the quality used saddles bring in the big bucks In Western saddles well made will hold value, Mccall and Colorado saddlry offer well made off the rack saddles that will last and hold thier value.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-02T19:27:40Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#ebac73ed-15d7-4d40-a9e4-b925f570092f 2006-12-02T02:45:31Z 2006-12-02T02:45:31Z

Thank you for the advice... Just an FYI Trekker is not wholesale :o)

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-02T02:45:31Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#a3487632-02b7-46f2-a2e4-6271979ed2fd 2006-12-01T15:52:24Z 2006-12-01T15:52:24Z

Wholesale Its all about the fit and finish and quality. I mean if you look at our big friends, each is different, generic equiptment never seems to fit right. And cheap leather does not wear and it rubs the hair off of a horse. I see people using Biothane and other such products (I'm not a fan of shiny and colorful) because the off the shelf headstalls rot. I have a lunging caveson that my grand father made probably in the late 1920's I use it 3 days aweek, if you make something right and care for it it will last. And most horse gear is pretty simple, for the expence of some leather, basic tools and time you can make just about everything that you put on your horse. plus it will fit your horse. you can get rid of most of the buckles bouncing around on your horses face or if the buckles are necessary you can put them where they are not sitting on bone. This goes for expensive gear as well, if it doesn't it doesn't fit. You can,t see if it fits in a catalogue or web page. And when you think of the money keeping these creatures costs us, the expence of having something built to fit them is minimal. When I got my saddle from My uncle, it looked like it fit but it was a simple matter of unstringing the saddle and putting the tree on his back to see for sure. if the gullet fits the animal minor filling can be done to the tree with skived leather to make the fit perfect. if you dont want to do it your self (re stringing the saddle can be a pain in the ass) most good saddlers can do it for a minimal expence.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-01T15:52:24Z Mia Donna http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#8bc74ffd-9b06-48df-a50b-1f0488082153 2006-12-01T14:54:36Z 2006-12-01T14:54:36Z

wowo wowo wow!!! ya!!! i have stuff to check out!!! thanks thanks!!! c.b. stay away from wholesale? have you had a bad experience?

Mia Donna 2006-12-01T14:54:36Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#180e77c9-54b5-4acc-ba3b-4f6b3c716af4 2006-12-01T14:12:36Z 2006-12-01T14:12:36Z

When it comes to horse gear stay away from wholesale.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-01T14:12:36Z $item.owner.firstName http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#f1035d00-d1a2-4aac-a082-4069bd7d1950 2006-12-01T04:21:30Z 2006-12-01T04:21:30Z

I love my Treeless saddle by Trekker. These are the BEST and most SAFE Treeless saddles I know of. You can check out Trekker's web site at: www.treeless-saddles.com/ If you are interested in a Trekker let me know I have a friend in the USA where you can buy one for less money... I love mine! I have had many saddles over the years and this is the BEST! Plus it is great for your horse...

$item.owner.firstName 2006-12-01T04:21:30Z Amy http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#5c533f67-f171-4e45-923f-e4edccba2bec 2006-12-01T02:36:58Z 2006-12-01T02:36:58Z

and some treeless saddle suggestions http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/a9983270-0e0c-4ffa-befe-86d1a40c8e63

Amy 2006-12-01T02:36:58Z Amy http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#9c63c260-39a2-4cab-8211-4eff2eeab8c4 2006-12-01T02:36:13Z 2006-12-01T02:36:13Z

http://www.casadosa.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=137 for direction link to an example.

Amy 2006-12-01T02:36:13Z Amy http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#873a14dc-04ca-438c-b930-e02f5fd63178 2006-12-01T02:35:17Z 2006-12-01T02:35:17Z

I love my jaquima. It's from Casa Dosa ( www.casadosa.com ). It's basically a halter w/ rings for reins, similar to the jumping hackamore linked to above, but it's *much* more versitle. Reins can be attached under the chin for leverage, or to the side for direct nose pressure (or both for riding w/ double reins). It can be easily adjusted up or down, and the nose band tightened or loosened, to make it stronger or weaker, and lift the head up or down (takes a little fiddling to figure out what adjustment will give you what). The top nose band or bottom curb can be switched out independently to make it stronger or weaker (Dolly needed one ride in a strong nose band to stop leaning on it, then she was back to the basic nose band). Additionally, a rope is often attached to the throat latch, then run down either betweem the jaw and the curb, or through a leather loop on the curb. That way, you always have a lead line or lunge line handy (I bought a long enough rope for lunging). The excess is tied to the saddle while riding. Traditionally, young horses are ridden in just the jaquima, then slowly transitioned over to the bit once the teeth are fully in, similar to western bosal transitions. The jaquima is continued to be used in training along w/ the bit (the bit hanger put on over the jaquima). I love it, b/c I can be loose and soft w/ the rein, and if for some reason I need to correct strongly, I can take up hard on just the jaquima rein and save her mouth.

Amy 2006-12-01T02:35:17Z Jenni http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#bc0b6d0d-65d1-4dd3-908a-6a14d281177e 2006-12-01T02:16:06Z 2006-12-01T02:16:06Z

When I get a new horse/pony one day, I want to get a Dr. Cook Bitless Bridle. www.bitlessbridle.com I think that's what you're talking about. :-) Jenni

Jenni 2006-12-01T02:16:06Z Mia Donna http://horselovers.tribe.net/thread/607849c6-c8c2-441e-96e6-c10f8a14c739#57f692ba-d6e3-4096-8ed5-c693e5b60ef1 2006-12-01T00:40:28Z 2006-12-01T00:40:28Z

anyone know anything!!! i've just heard about treeless saddles and am really interested in getting one. my horse is growing and with his changing body, i want to be as gentle to his back as possible!! bitless bridles...that are not hackmores or bozzels (sp)? and wholesale suppliers!!! anyone have any info!!!? thanks!! *whinnie*

Mia Donna 2006-12-01T00:40:28Z