Posting up, heels down

topic posted Wed, September 3, 2008 - 10:35 AM by  Amy
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It's been years, but I finally took a lesson at the trot., since my little gaited girl is still recovering from a pulled ligament (no idea how that happened..). It went a lot better than I feared, but I was having an awful time trying to keep my heels down while posting. I remember having all sorts of mental images that used to help me keep them down years ago, but I've forgotten them all! Any advice?
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Amy
offline Amy
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  • Re: Posting up, heels down

    Wed, September 3, 2008 - 11:29 AM
    I don't have any good tips about heels down, but I do have a question about posting in general. Why do we post at the trot? I can sit extremely well on most horses at the collected or extended trot. No bouncing, etc. Is posting for the benefit of novice rides to keep them from bouncing the heck out of the horse's back, or is there some other reason?
    • Re: Posting up, heels down

      Thu, September 11, 2008 - 11:29 AM
      Posting can also be easier on a horse's back. On my college team, we would never sit the trot until the horse had been properly warmed up, to take strain off his back. Also, arthitic horses may appreciate it. Also, if you're not all the good at sitting, or the horse is especially bouncy, it can be hard on his back.
      • Re: Posting up, heels down

        Wed, September 17, 2008 - 1:52 AM
        The way I've seen a LOT of people "post" it certainly isn't. It's sad to see "Western" riders bumping up and down on these poor, usually still colts, horse. I always sit a trot, riding with the horses motion...my butt does not lose contact...if I tried to post it would certainly hurt a horse's back. And I used to ride an extremely bouncy horse.
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    Re: Posting up, heels down

    Wed, September 3, 2008 - 4:19 PM
    I think it depends on the horse and the rider and the discipline. Some horses have a nice smooth trot, if you watch their top line while they are trotting.... it’s smooth and the up and down motion is not bad, others well kidney busting is a good term. And if the rider is relaxed, absorbing the trot is easier, and when you relax posting comes easier as well. (Relaxing is not the easiest thing to do when trainers are yelling “heels down”) I think lower leg relaxed is more important than heels down.(personal opinion) I'm not saying point your toes down but I wouldn't get carried away with forcing your heels down, I see people do the heels down thing to a point where their legs are out of position for applying any aids. (Dogma is never good)
    If you’ve ever been to a Saddle bred show some of the posting looks like it would be exhausting. But then it is for show and a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Then watch Isabelle Werth sit the trot and she looks like part of the horse.
    Personally I like to post on trail rides as my beast has a wonderful ground-eating trot (about 10-12 mph) that is just a bit uncomfortable to sit, especially after 10-15 miles. My grand father was cavalry and his trick was practice with no stirrups with a handkerchief between your knees and the horse, if your toes went down you lost the handkerchief as your contact point lowers to your calf.
    • Re: Posting up, heels down

      Wed, September 3, 2008 - 5:23 PM
      relaxing is very good advice !
      don't clench your toes. I find I have to consciously remind myself this one suprisingly often.
      Use thigh muscles for lift...imagine a spring pulling your belt buckle forward (this is from Sally Swift's Centered Riding" I HIGHLY recommend this book!!)) Let the horse push you up. On the down, soften hip joints, relax knees, imagine you are coming down on soft cotton wool.
      Use stomach/core muscel to hold yourself upright, take a deep breath, relax shoulders.
      breathe, breathe, breathe. this helps center your balance with the horses center of balance, then you catch his rhythm, and it all flows so much easier.... his impulsion & buoyancy will increase as he rounds his back up under your seat.
      your legs should lengthen & heels drop automatically.
      are you studying dressage?
      • Re: Posting up, heels down

        Thu, September 11, 2008 - 11:34 AM
        My training is primarily English equitation, with dressage as a close second. I've been riding a Paso Fino for years, so I'm now most comfortable sitting back "on the pockets", with long, loose legs. So, normally I don't worry about my heels at all--I've been riding so long, it's second nature and, when sitting deep on the trail, heels just aren't an issue.

        But, now I'm back in English hunt seat, and all that short stirrups, lots of leg, and forward seat takes some readjusting! I'm not just not keeping my heels down, but I feel like I'm standing on my toes and my feet are constantly slipping forwards, which is an obvious safety problem. I also feel like I'm leaning forwards and I thought that if I sat back a little more, it would help get weight back into my heels, only the instructor says I'm already sitting very upright, so I'm assuming that's just another thing to get used to the feel of again. The up and down isn't a problem (read Centered Riding years ago. But my favorite imagine is from college--bring your belt buckle to your hands). Even sitting the trot has some heel problems, though not as much. I'm thinking I'll need to try the old "put your feet in the stirrups backwards" trick...
        • Re: Posting up, heels down

          Thu, September 11, 2008 - 1:18 PM
          I have had the same issue and am finally getting the hang of it. I too went from dressage to hunters and it is a big shift! I think the big difference is in dressage you are supposed to keep your knees very close to the saddle with your toes pointing forward and in hunters you are not in fact you are supposed to have a bit of space with your toes pointing more out. If you are squeezing at the knees it is almost impossible to have your heels down. What I have done is focus on relaxing the knees and doing alot of two point to stretch down through the heel. Just keep at it! You will improve over time, I did!

          Anah
  • Re: Posting up, heels down

    Thu, September 18, 2008 - 11:11 AM
    Hi Amy,
    Here are some tips I've used on students in the past with success.

    Close your hip angle slightly so that your weight is just slightly forward and with the horses motion.
    Instead of trying to shove your heels down, make sure that your hips are over your heels and try pulling your toes up. Relax your ankle as much as you can. Glance down at your toes. You should just be able to see the tips of your toes past your knee.

    Then, when you are posting the trot, try not to rise too far out of the saddle. You want your lower leg to stay steady and you just want to rise slightly out of the saddle and forward. This should come mostly from your thigh, but take care not to grip with your knees.

    Some exercises for getting your heels down include:
    Standing on a step at home with your toes on the step and your heels hanging down to lengthen and stretch.
    Two point does work wonders if done properly. You can do this at a walk and a trot while you are warming up. See if you can keep your hips over your heels and balance in your two point that way. Make sure to keep your back flat, shoulders back, and your hip angle slightly closed. If your horse is well trained, see if you can balance in your two point that way, bridge your reins and while balancing, reach with the other hand and touch your horse between his ears at his poll, then try again touching his croup (top of his butt, kinda hard to explain).

    Hope that helps some and have fun riding!
    • Re: Posting up, heels down

      Fri, September 19, 2008 - 7:20 AM
      I'm so glad to get these tips. It's so much to think about on top of a horse!! Also I think from being a dancer I'm so used to being on the balls of my feet instead of my heels that it's really hard to relax & let them down. At least I"m getting aware of that feeling tho -
      I wish there were some exercises to do off-horse to get the hang of the leg position, but I guess I'd need some kind of barrel to sit on - !?
      • Re: Posting up, heels down

        Sat, September 20, 2008 - 4:56 AM
        I saw this video somewhere else, maybe youtube? where the comments were really bad, but I don't see them now - why does everyone hate this video so much?
        www.expertvillage.com/video/5...trot.htm
        • Re: Posting up, heels down

          Sun, September 28, 2008 - 3:57 PM
          On horses i have to train or re-train,,i spent some time with Tom Dorrance in 1987 and he was talking about horses don't get a chance to relax their backs or their ribs cause when we trot young horses get stiff as they protect their selves, and then they carry their memory in their backbone

          one way is to get a good ground covering walk, tip the horse into a trot for about 40 feet and then come back to a ground covering walk,,repeat a few times and don't get greedy to trot trot trot cause then the horse has no idea when its going to end

          the horse has to be able to seperate the meaning of whats being asked,,,it shouldn't be an excercise in tediousness

          as the horse relaxes, at the ground covering walk you'll feel the ribs swaying left / right as the hind feet come up,,,get in rythym with the sway and then when the horse tips up into a trot you'll also never need spurs,,,which also causes a tight protective back

          if the horse has trouble and the rider has trouble because of bouncing then repeat at the walk,,,also natural balanced shoes, or 4 point trims help the horse to move with less strain on the tendons...

          best regards, sol
          • Re: Posting up, heels down

            Sun, September 28, 2008 - 4:41 PM
            "get in rythym with the sway "
            yes this helps me a lot! your right seat bone should slide forward with his right hind, and the same with the left side, you must be relaxed & centered to feel this. if you relax so does the horse~
            • Re: Posting up, heels down

              Tue, October 14, 2008 - 7:05 AM
              "success" of sorts... at last! My teacher's been letting me use her dressage saddle & it's made such a difference in helping my legs stay in place. Also getting the hang of this horse's rhythms, and working with him better, he's very sensitive but patient.
              Also finally was able to figure out where to go up in the post - I'd had the wrong idea for a while & it was messing me up - thought it was when the outside front foot went DOWN - now I realize it's when the front right SHOULDER goes up! Light bulb going on.... yay!

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