Russian horse trainer Nevzorov interesting

topic posted Mon, January 8, 2007 - 9:08 AM by  Unsubscribed
I thought some of you might find this Russian horse trainer Nevzorov interesting... He does not use bridles! There are some interesting points made on this site (food for thought) as well as stunning photos... This site is in English and Russian...

I like some of his ideas however I worry how safe it would be to go without bridles? And would you have to train a horse from a foal in this way? I could ride my childhood Palomino without a bridle and I can ride our Morgan IN THE PASTURE without a bridle... But for trail rides I don't think I would feel safe. Maybe it depends on the horse and also on the person working with that horse? Let me know your thoughts when you have time?
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  • Re: Russian horse trainer Nevzorov interesting

    Mon, January 8, 2007 - 4:31 PM
    I'd ride in an arena, round pen or the like bridleless (by which I mean with nothing on the head) with a horse that is properly trained for it, but not outside. Okay, maybe totally bareback sitting around the pasture on a horse I'm well bonded with... and able to bail if something happens...but I haven't done that since I was a kid.

    I try not to actually use the bridle too much, bu having that method of communication is something I consider a major safety thing. I can see not using a BRIDLE if you've done a lot of work with a horse with a halter. I mostly decided to go with a bit with Saoradh because of his age, he obviously knew what one was and he responds well to little pressure on it. He does now respond well to pressure on a rope halter, but not quite so well. I am hoping that maybe my next horse (which at Saoradh's age I have to think about) I might never put a bit to, especially if it's young.
  • Re: Russian horse trainer Nevzorov interesting

    Mon, January 8, 2007 - 11:02 PM
    I think it takes a lot more then just taking of the bit. There are a lot of things you must do on the ground so that horse starts seing you as a leader and trusts you before you can go off riding without the bit or briddle all together.
    For start, Join upp simmed very good as a begining of a relationship with a horse. My friend has done it several times and it worked like a charm. Parelli's games are good for strenghtening a relationship too.

    Yesterday, I've been reading an article in one Horse magazine about Nevzorov's work. There was a lot about making the difference between training horses and teaching horses. It is basically the same to us. But it makes a huge difference to a horse. Most people train horses, but when you use another approach and actually take your time to teach a horse, horse will responde more hapilly.
    I only wish I have the time to copy that article here. It was very inpspiering.
  • Re: Russian horse trainer Nevzorov interesting

    Tue, January 9, 2007 - 12:00 PM
    He looks a lot like Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling (_Dancing with Horses_). He also does a lot of bridless (and saddleless) work with the goal of collection. He does use a bridle at the end of training to "finish the picture" (I think that's the phrase he uses). If it were me, I would use a bridle outside of a ring for the same reason I ride in a saddle w/ stirrups on the trail, while I'll ride bareback in the ring--it's just a bit more security in case something crazy happens on the trail. Better to have it and not need it. than need it and not have it.

    On the bridless theme, I watched Lord of the Rings over the holidays and once again got to fanatising about riding tackless across open fields... then I watch the behind the scenes and see how they got the horses to pull that off--trainers off camera, target training, and a rider who knows that sometimes the horse just isn't going to stop....

    I also wonder if it's an attainable goal for all of us. Hempfling (and Nevzorov from the little bit I read on the website) refer to a horse's natural sense of balance and collection, but I'm not sure that every horse has that--we can't all own classical stallions. My little pony, for example, when left to her natural devices will run on the forehand. Watch her in the field and that was her thing. It took over a year of training (with a bridle) to get her to collect. And we don't all have the time to ride and train ourselves, let alone our horses, to reach that level of communication. I think it is unfair to berate us for using additional tools to compensate for that. (I also get on a rant when full grown men lecture me on not using whips or spurs. I'm a small woman--I do not have nearly the physical strength or sheer body weight that the a grown man has. I'm sure that me kicking my short little legs with spurs on the end causes the same sensation as a 6 foot plus man kicking his legs full force. I need a little help to even the playing field.)

    And I get uneasy by Nevzorov's "all you other horse professionals shouldn't even read this because you won't understand it" statement. If the technique is good and true, then he should encourage everyone to read it. If he's telling some professionals not to, it's because they might find fault with it. After all, their techniques do work--the horses race and jump. Just because there is a better way does not invalidate their work.

    I'm just mentally wandering now... In short, I think bridless riding (or at least collection on a loose rein) is a wonderful goal that I'd love to work towards. But I'm against anyone who tells me it's the only way to go.
    • Unsu...

      Re: Russian horse trainer Nevzorov interesting

      Tue, January 9, 2007 - 12:14 PM
      Is it just me or does this guy strike you as a pompous ass.
      • Re: Russian horse trainer Nevzorov interesting

        Tue, January 9, 2007 - 2:33 PM
        It's the "I have found the secret! For all of humanity, everyone else has done it wrong. I know how to truly work with a horse!" assertions. Buddy, you're not the first person to try riding w/o a bridle, or to think maybe being nice to the horse would be better. Somehow, I think our ancestors--who lived, worked, fought on, and depended upon their horses for their livelihood--understood horses better than we modern riders ever could, and they could all probably teach him a thing or two. What I liked about "Dancing.." was that he was honest about looking back through classical riding pictures and literature to develope the basics of his technique.

        Along those lines--I rememer reading somewhere that the Huns didn't use bridles. Instead, they turned their horses by laying a stick on one side of the horse's neck. Not sure if it's true. But it makes sense when you consider that they fought from horseback, so they would need their hands free.
        • Unsu...

          Re: Russian horse trainer Nevzorov interesting

          Tue, January 9, 2007 - 5:57 PM
          I also have a hard time with how this trainer talks so harshly against the racing industry (and others)... I agree that there is much work still to do and many new things to learn between horses and human but my Grandpa was a jockey and a great horseman so I take offense to that. I do agree that some people are cruel and to hard on their horses but that is not everyone who races, shows, or rides Western. I think this man is a good trainer and has valuable things to teach the world however if he wants to be heard by others - especially those who he seems to want to reach - he should be more balanced.

          I must say I LOVE the photos of him with the horses he works with... From the photos it does seem like he has a gift and also that these horses connect with him/love him.

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